[Michael]

כותרת: re: solution
I suppose that this one should do:

int main(void)
{
clrscr();
unsigned long res = 1;
for(int i=1;i!=2001;i++){
res*=i; res = res%2003;
}
cout << res << endl;
return 0;
}

The output for this function is 1001

BTW, it really takes a codeguru to write English in this forum,
and I am not one….

[Michael]

כותרת: P.S.
Sorry, didn´t read your very last post.

Next time I am in the right mood – My response

M.

[Michael]

כותרת: re: AI
Oh, come on, it´s not a contr-AI argument
I meant a real contr-AI argument. Like, show me where
I am wrong in my reasoning, if you think I am…..

That´s what I meant, at least….

And, sure, if we don´t consider memory issues, I have
nothing to say about the use of Turing´s theorem.
Only that the question was about a program in a specific language.
I wasn´t about algorithms, but about real code.

As I wrote, if it´s about real code, Turing´s proof might not work, do we agree here?

Now, back to the memory (:. The algorithm Halt is unable to declare how much memory it needs. Now, if my algorithm doesn´t know how much memory does an algorithm need, how the hell is it supposed to work??? A little unfair, isn´t it? Or not? One would consider it (sorry for my repetitions, I´m quite out of arguments…..) as another input.
BTW, mind that there is no "new" operator in Java, I think. (I´m not quite sure, and have no mood to check. I learned Java about 3 yrs. ago when I wasn´t quite aware of the existence of quadratic equations…
Now, that I´m aware of the existence of a continuum of different algorithms, it´s different).

[Michael]

כותרת: re: venndigram´s point
Thx, venndigram!!!
In case the post isn´t one of those sarcastic notes…
But, officially, this is not one of my points.
!Someone!!! respond to the AI part, let Turing alone
Don´t think i did, i have some ideas about Turing….
===

Consider this: the halting problem was solved 25 years before the Turing test was introduced…. What does it mean?

[Michael]

כותרת: reply
That´s my whole point…..
The "original" Halt is additional input

[Michael]

כותרת: What I have to say
Uri, now you are wrong, I think
That´s exactly what I was talking about – the "either through Class.byName or simply by copy-and-pasting its source" is another input. Why should I tell you what´s my source and what´s my name anyway? Most commercial products won´t, as you know.
BTW, out of curiosity, where did you hear about Turing´s theorem?

Talking of philosophy and logic, does nybody have something to say about my original claim about the AI?
I don´t think somebody contradicted it. We´re discussing only the applicability of Turing´s theorem…….

[Michael]

כותרת: grades
BTW, how much did you people get?

[Michael]

כותרת: Earth-Sun
Influence and spinning around are two differnet things
Anyway, people, i´ve started a discussion about philosophy and you talk about some trivial Physics. Wake up, people

[Michael]

כותרת: re: halting problem, the easy part
There is a fine point here. No, the input is necessary, as I see it.
You see, if the input is not necessary you claim as follows:
You say you programmed an algorithm that determines whether the input algorithm halts. Well, I(it´s you, not me) disagree. I will program the function trouble( that, among others, call a function that determines if a algorithm halts) and it will confuse your algorithm. Wait – but you said it´s impossible to program such a function – how will you do that?

BTW, I must admit i´m completely lost with this topic. But, Uri,
wait, I´ll find something, be sure. Actually I have some ideas already.

[Michael]

כותרת: halting problem
Indeed, Turing knew what he was talking about. I didn´t read the original proof, but suppose the proof in the link you´ve sent is similar to it. Sure, in a way, Turing is right. There is one problem with it, as I see it. The function "Trouble" is able to call function
"Halt".
So, as I see it, Turing claims the following: show me your algorithm that determines whether a given algorithm with a given input will evetually halt, and i´ll find such an input that will prove that your algorithm is bad. The thing is that you must have additional input for this. And if your program gets ANY additional input, the problem is not interesting: say, if it connects to your site, which says whether to stop running or not.

Morever, show me a JAVA application which activates another application.

One more thing – the proof doesn´t consider the fact that we have limited memory. What if the Halt function is programmed in such a way that it takes more then a half of the memory, or just deosn´t allow to copies to run in the same time?

Consider my analogy to the human brain in the first post. It won´t work witb us humans, would it?
Sure, a paradox can confuse us, but does it mean we are unable to determine whether an algorithm will stop running?
And that´s exactly the case.

If someone asks why does a cat have three legs, we´ll just answer – because it doesn´t, that´s why

To be short, Turing is right and I am right. No contradiction. I think

[מאת]

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